Temporary and Permanent Hardness.
Both calcium hydrogencarbonate and magnesium hydrogencarbonate decompose (split up) when heated.
The original insoluble carbonate is reformed. This happens when water is boiled.calcium hydrogencarbonate carbon dioxide + water + calcium carbonate.
Ca(HCO3)2(aq) CO2(g) + H2O(l) + CaCO3(s)
magnesium hydrogencarbonatecarbon dioxide+water+magnesiumcarbonate
Mg(HCO3)2(aq) CO2(g) + H2O(l) + MgCO3(s)
Boiling the water causes the precipitation of solid calcium carbonate or solid magnesium carbonate. This removes the calcium ions or magnesium ions from the water,
and so removes the hardness. Therefore, hardness due to hydrogencarbonates is said to be temporary.
Other types of calcium ion or magnesium ion in water such as calcium chloride - CaCl2, calcium sulphate - CaSO4, magnesium chloride - MgCl2 or magnesium sulphate - MgSO4
are not removed by boiling the water. These ions in water are said to cause permanent hardness.
Therefore heating the water will cause the temporary hardness to precipitate out as calcium and magnesium carbonate. The permanent hardness (calcium and magnesium chloride, sulphate will remain as the Total Hardness. You need to know not only the alkalinity value of the water but also the chloride and sulphate value of the water.
I do not fully understand your odor question. Once a chemical reaction has occurred like that I would expect that activated carbon would remove it. Otherwise, remove the chlorine before it is fed to the vessel.
Gary Schreiber, CWS VI
The Purolite Co.
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 07:52:04 +0200
From: "DEREK" <sewell@absamail.co.za>
Subject: REMOVING RESIN.
Our sincere thanks for all of the ideas and experiences. We have found the details of the Mineral Extracter and will pursue the source and details of the Shop-Vac.
May we use this time time to congratulate the forum members for their willingness to share their hard won experiences and to be politically incorrect to wish you all and your families a Very Blessed Christmas.
To Raymond 'n Geseende Kersfees en Voorspoedige Nuwejaar.
Thanks again,
Derek
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:34:38 -0600
From: "Gary Schreiber" <garypuro@deskmedia.com>
Subject: Re: iron removal method for villages in India
Saleem,
In that case one way to do that is to use Manganese Greensand in vessels that can be exchanged on an as needed basis. We call them Portable Exchange (PE) Tanks. They would be used on an individual home basis. Typically 1 to 2 cubic feet of Greensand in each tank. Greensand has a capacity usually of about 10,000 ppm Fe per cubic foot. The tanks would be exchanged for fresh tanks. The depleted tanks would be returned to a central regeneration facility that has electricity and pumps to regenerate the media.
You can also do that with larger tanks for multiple central feed for a number of homes or for larger water usage locations. In that case, you would need appropriate tank lifting and trucking to handle these larger tanks.
Gary Schreiber, CWS VI
The Purolite Co.
----- Original Message -----
From: saleem
To: WaterTechOnline@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 7:35 AM
Subject: [WaterTechOnline] iron removal method for villages in India
Gary Schreiber, CWS VI
The Purolite Co.
dear sir,
what i meant through the word "low cost" is that these methods are to be
used in villages in India particularly the north east region , where you
will rarely find electricity .... not to talk about mechanical pumps and
chemicals......
any practical idea ?????
----saleem
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:49:39 -0800
> From: "GreenValleyPumpInc" <gvpinc@internetcds.com>
> Subject: Re: low cost iron removal methods
>
> Forget about cost being the operative word. Try: Best, efficient, or
> practical. We use a Greensand Filter or a MAZ which is a lighter,
> synthetic version. Very reliable, space efficient, and the cost of the
> Potassium Permanganate is still affordable. We use them where this is
the
> criteria...and all that does end up as a factor of costs. Steve
> gvpinc@internetcds.com
________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:53:28 -0800
> From: "GreenValleyPumpInc" <gvpinc@internetcds.com>
> Subject: Re: Removing resin
>
> WE use a homemade tank with a "Shop-Vac" head attached...gets a couple
cubic
> feet out pretty quick and without having to add water to help with
removal.
> I notice some of the newer Shop-Vac's have pretty big tanks (and pretty
> small)...one of these is the cheapest, best we have found...can take it
"on
> the job" or work in the shop...Steve
> gvpinc@internetcds.com
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:46:26 +0530
> From: "neelesh" <neelesh@aqua-focus.com>
> Subject: Re: low cost iron removal methods
>
> please clarify about the potassium permanganate. is green sand actually
> potassium permanganate? could not be- then what is the role of this in the
> iron removal,
> thanks
> neelesh
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 01:19:27 -0600
> From: "Gary Schreiber" <garypuro@deskmedia.com>
> Subject: Re: low cost iron removal methods
>
> Greensand is Manganese Greensand. It is regenerated with Potassium
> Permanganate. It is an excellent media for iron removal.
>
> Gary Schreiber, CWS VI
> The Purolite Co.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "neelesh" <neelesh@aqua-focus.com>
> To: <WaterTechOnline@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [WaterTechOnline] low cost iron removal methods
>
>
> >
> > please clarify about the potassium permanganate. is green sand actually
> > potassium permanganate? could not be- then what is the role of this in
the
> > iron removal,
> > thanks
> > neelesh
From: "Gary Schreiber" <garypuro@deskmedia.com>
Subject: Re: iron removal method for villages in India
Gary Schreiber (me) didn't write that.
Gary Schreiber, CWS VI
The Purolite Co.
----- Original Message -----
From: agung wijaya
To: WaterTechOnline@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WaterTechOnline] iron removal method for villages in India
Gary Schreiber <garypuro@deskmedia.com> wrote:
in my experience, the cheapest way to remove iron and manganese are by using chlorine ( calsium or natrium hypochlorite ).I ussual use this method in indonesia, and i think this technique still effective until now.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 13:38:01 -0800
From: "GreenValleyPumpInc" <gvpinc@internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: low cost iron removal methods
No, "pot perm" (KMNO4) has lots of chemically bound oxygen as you can see in
the description. The greensand will "grab" the oxygn in the regeneration
process and then this highly oxygenated sand will oxidize what is in the
water to its limits. Manganese Dixoide is the true name for Green Sand.
All though there are some synthetics that are still used by this generic
name...the synthetic is lighter and takes less gpm to backwash.
gvpinc@internetcds.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 15:23:20 -0800 (PST)
From: tolga eroglu <muhertek@yahoo.com>
Subject: epoxy
I want to ask some questions:
1) Somebody coat a tank with epoxy but (I assume) he didn't wait for drying the epoxy.When the water (tap water, free chlorine is nearly 0,5ppm) got inside the coated tank a reaction occur with chlorine in water and epoxy. There occur an high odour (likely chlorine). The question is this scenario is logically and how do I eliminate the odour? (I thoght with active carbon)
2) If we heat tap water (Ca++ : 56mg/L CaCO3, Mg++: 34mg/L CaCO3 and total hardness: 90mg/L CaCO3), what will be the Ca++, Mg++ and total hardness.
3) Can we find from the data above permanant and temporary hardness. Should we know the alkalinity values?
4) I know that if we heat the tap water, temporary hardness decreased and permenant hardness increased with an increasing temperature. Is it right?
Your sincerly
Tolga
_______________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:35:09 -0600
From: "Dave Bauman" <dbauman@lakefield.net>
Subject: Re: epoxy
Most epoxy linings are baked after application. I think your's will be exhibiting the odor for a long time. We would probably recoat it.
Dave Bauman
----- Original Message -----
From: tolga eroglu
To: WaterTechOnline@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:23 PM
Subject: [WaterTechOnline] epoxy
I want to ask some questions:
1) Somebody coat a tank with epoxy but (I assume) he didn't wait for drying the epoxy.When the water (tap water, free chlorine is nearly 0,5ppm) got inside the coated tank a reaction occur with chlorine in water and epoxy. There occur an high odour (likely chlorine). The question is this scenario is logically and how do I eliminate the odour? (I thoght with active carbon)
2) If we heat tap water (Ca++ : 56mg/L CaCO3, Mg++: 34mg/L CaCO3 and total hardness: 90mg/L CaCO3), what will be the Ca++, Mg++ and total hardness.
3) Can we find from the data above permanant and temporary hardness. Should we know the alkalinity values?
4) I know that if we heat the tap water, temporary hardness decreased and permenant hardness increased with an increasing temperature. Is it right?
Your sincerly
Tolga
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:58:52 -0600
From: "Gary Schreiber" <garypuro@deskmedia.com>
Subject: Re: epoxy
Here is a good explanation:
Temporary and Permanent Hardness.
Both calcium hydrogencarbonate and magnesium hydrogencarbonate decompose (split up) when heated.
The original insoluble carbonate is reformed. This happens when water is boiled.calcium hydrogencarbonate carbon dioxide + water + calcium carbonate.
Ca(HCO3)2(aq) CO2(g) + H2O(l) + CaCO3(s)
magnesium hydrogencarbonatecarbon dioxide+water+magnesiumcarbonate
Mg(HCO3)2(aq) CO2(g) + H2O(l) + MgCO3(s)
Boiling the water causes the precipitation of solid calcium carbonate or solid magnesium carbonate. This removes the calcium ions or magnesium ions from the water,
and so removes the hardness. Therefore, hardness due to hydrogencarbonates is said to be temporary.
Other types of calcium ion or magnesium ion in water such as calcium chloride - CaCl2, calcium sulphate - CaSO4, magnesium chloride - MgCl2 or magnesium sulphate - MgSO4
are not removed by boiling the water. These ions in water are said to cause permanent hardness.
Therefore heating the water will cause the temporary hardness to precipitate out as calcium and magnesium carbonate. The permanent hardness (calcium and magnesium chloride, sulphate will remain as the Total Hardness. You need to know not only the alkalinity value of the water but also the chloride and sulphate value of the water.
I do not fully understand your odor question. Once a chemical reaction has occurred like that I would expect that activated carbon would remove it. Otherwise, remove the chlorine before it is fed to the vessel.
Gary Schreiber, CWS VI
The Purolite Co.
----- Original Message -----
From: tolga eroglu
To: WaterTechOnline@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:23 PM
Subject: [WaterTechOnline] epoxy
I want to ask some questions:
1) Somebody coat a tank with epoxy but (I assume) he didn't wait for drying the epoxy.When the water (tap water, free chlorine is nearly 0,5ppm) got inside the coated tank a reaction occur with chlorine in water and epoxy. There occur an high odour (likely chlorine). The question is this scenario is logically and how do I eliminate the odour? (I thoght with active carbon)
2) If we heat tap water (Ca++ : 56mg/L CaCO3, Mg++: 34mg/L CaCO3 and total hardness: 90mg/L CaCO3), what will be the Ca++, Mg++ and total hardness.
3) Can we find from the data above permanant and temporary hardness. Should we know the alkalinity values?
4) I know that if we heat the tap water, temporary hardness decreased and permenant hardness increased with an increasing temperature. Is it right?
Your sincerly
Tolga
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 20:49:51 -0500
From: "Gary Slusser" <qwasluss@ptd.net>
Subject: RE: low cost iron removal methods
I thought Pyrolox was manganese dioxide.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
www.qualitywaterassociates.com
Bulletin Board www.qualitywaterassociates.com/phpBB2
-----Original Message-----
From: GreenValleyPumpInc [mailto:gvpinc@internetcds.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 4:38 PM
To: WaterTechOnline@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WaterTechOnline] low cost iron removal methods
No, "pot perm" (KMNO4) has lots of chemically bound oxygen as you can see in
the description. The greensand will "grab" the oxygn in the regeneration
process and then this highly oxygenated sand will oxidize what is in the
water to its limits. Manganese Dixoide is the true name for Green Sand.
All though there are some synthetics that are still used by this generic
name...the synthetic is lighter and takes less gpm to backwash.
gvpinc@internetcds.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:36:27 -0600
From: "Gary Schreiber" <garypuro@deskmedia.com>
Subject: Re: low cost iron removal methods
Pyrolox is a form of Manganese Dioxide. Manganese Greensand's true name is Glauconite .
Both are capable of iron removal.
Gary Schreiber, CWS VI
The Purolite Co.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Slusser
To: WaterTechOnline@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 7:49 PM
Subject: RE: [WaterTechOnline] low cost iron removal methods
I thought Pyrolox was manganese dioxide.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
www.qualitywaterassociates.com
Bulletin Board www.qualitywaterassociates.com/phpBB2
-----Original Message-----
From: GreenValleyPumpInc [mailto:gvpinc@internetcds.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 4:38 PM
To: WaterTechOnline@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WaterTechOnline] low cost iron removal methods
No, "pot perm" (KMNO4) has lots of chemically bound oxygen as you can see in
the description. The greensand will "grab" the oxygn in the regeneration
process and then this highly oxygenated sand will oxidize what is in the
water to its limits. Manganese Dixoide is the true name for Green Sand.
All though there are some synthetics that are still used by this generic
name...the synthetic is lighter and takes less gpm to backwash.
gvpinc@internetcds.com
________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 19:05:10 +0530
From: saleem <saleemasraf@vsnl.net>
Subject: iron removal method for villages in India
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 01:19:27 -0600
> From: "Gary Schreiber" <garypuro@deskmedia.com>
> Subject: Re: low cost iron removal methods
>
> Greensand is Manganese Greensand. It is regenerated with Potassium
> Permanganate. It is an excellent media for iron removal.
>
> Gary Schreiber, CWS VI
> The Purolite Co.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "neelesh" <neelesh@aqua-focus.com>
> To: <WaterTechOnline@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [WaterTechOnline] low cost iron removal methods
>
>
> >
> > please clarify about the potassium permanganate. is green sand actually
> > potassium permanganate? could not be- then what is the role of this in
the
> > iron removal,
> > thanks
> > neelesh
> >
